Though ignorant of the definition, I won’t refer to myself, and never will, as a patriot of any country. Immigrant carries too much baggage. Resident works best. Especially since after attaining Portuguese citizenship there is a possibility we might move elsewhere in the EU.
I consider myself an expat, based on the definitions, because we have not decided where we want to live permanently, or even if we do want to live somewhere permanently. We really like to travel, so wind up out of a home base country as much, if not more, than inside the country.
Good discussion. I use both terms because as an expat I still have an emotional tether to the US that may always be even if I live here for the rest of my life. Immigrant because that has happened twice in my life. I relate to both for slightly different reasons.
I feel like the only thing that separates me from "refugee" is I had some degree of choice in picking where to go, how, and when, but considering we escaped a country where we were in danger and death felt imminent and arrived with nothing but what we could bring in our suitcases to a country we'd never been to and knew none of the language or a single person, it felt very refugee like. When someone refers to themself as an expat, I steer clear. Our experiences are not the same and I would struggle to find such a person relatable. We have made many Portuguese friends here, some because of shared interests in nerd hobbies, some others because they are also queer and/or trans and so are more like outsiders in their own land.
As someone who has lived in various countries for some years due to my own work /career or being with my husband due to his career I/we where referred to & referred to ourselves as expats it’s a temporary working situation & even if one remained there for years in most cases one could not even if they wanted to apply to be permanent residence or seek citizenship it’s temporary
That’s why I find it odd why people who seem to come here sell up everything buy homes here and talk about becoming permanent residence or seek citizenship refer to themselves as expats
Maybe it’s cultural maybe it’s they haven’t been an expat in the context that I’ve been in which my visa is connected to being under contract to global corporations
Here I’m an immigrant I carry a foreign passport I have moved here to live and that was my decision for multiple reasons one being to contribute positively in creating a business etc be part of this country & culture long term I chose to be here the government allowed me to be here & I hope it’s permanent but even if for some reason things change I have immigrated here I’m not on a temporary work contract with a company who is my employer
Do I worry about the title no but I also do not wish to ever insult my hosts it’s a privilege to be here for any country to let another soul like me from somewhere else on the other side of the world come and share their culture I hope I give more back than I ever take
I enjoyed this. For your poll, I really cannot answer as I need a “both” option; I immediately recognize both terms as applying to me.
Language is inseparable from how it’s used… which is why definitions of words evolve over time. When someone communicates using the word “expat,” I’m probably an example of what they mean. When they use “immigrant,” I may or may not be, depending on the speaker and context, but I’m most certainly one of those as well - just ask AIMA.
You briefly alluded to the time aspect - the intention of staying. We’re planning to stay, to get citizenship. Even beyond legal definitions that’s clearly “immigrant” territory. Years ago when we lived in Scotland I heard it argued that those like us (with permanent intentions) aren’t expats at all, and that expats are in a temporary state, often for work purposes. After a year or two they’ll go home or move on to another country. That differentiation made sense to me, and I believe at one point years ago that was more commonly mutually accepted as the meaning. But to my original point… that has changed and is not how it’s most often used today.
Appreciate the juxtaposition of our immigration vs. the fear-mongering about the "other" immigration in many countries (most notably our own). Thanks for your writing.
Very interesting discussion! To me, an expat is somewhere between tourist and immigrant with respect to timeframe and intent. Expat is temporary, immigrant is permanent.
I was an expat for 4 months in Singapore many years ago and yes I had a high-paying job in a bank, beautiful apartment and lots of perks.
My father, in contrast, came to the US with $8 in his pocket and a green card and an education. He was an immigrant as was I, when he brought me over 6 months later. He told me years later that at the time they didn't know if they were going to be here permanently but I think it was when they saw me growing up here in the US that it was clear we were here to stay.
Economic refugees? Economic immigrants? Retirees aren't looking to build a new home, raise children, contribute to the economy. So they aren't immigrants in that sense.
Wikipedia: Expats...those who've chosen to live outside their native country. United Nations: "a person who voluntarily renounces his or her nationality...exiles..."
Where do I fit in? Neither? I was born in Portugal and immigrated to the US when I was 12 years of age. Fifty nine years later in 2021, I returned to my birth nation with my Hispanic wife to escape the lunacies. We are both retirees from careers in the US and are loving it here, although sometimes I feel like a foreigner.
Yes, a retornado (returned). The name's origin goes back to 1974 when Portugal gave the African colonies independence in a hurry after the carnation revolution. The new government pretty much allowed everyone, regardless of race, to leave the colonies and return to the motherland. I was twenty four year old and visiting my aunt in Lisbon. Every hotel, hostel, etc, was fully booked long term; all paid by the government until everyone was relocated and provided with a job or public assistance until able to stand on their own feet. It took years... and it was amazing. Thus, I'm a retornado from the USA. Cheers.
Though ignorant of the definition, I won’t refer to myself, and never will, as a patriot of any country. Immigrant carries too much baggage. Resident works best. Especially since after attaining Portuguese citizenship there is a possibility we might move elsewhere in the EU.
Definitely thinking about moving to another country changes the outlook.
There is baggage with immigrant, but it's accurate.
I consider myself an expat, based on the definitions, because we have not decided where we want to live permanently, or even if we do want to live somewhere permanently. We really like to travel, so wind up out of a home base country as much, if not more, than inside the country.
I loved the Meatloaf reference.
I can't see you two settling down!
I’ve been using ex-pat as we aren’t sure of our long term plans yet. I’m still on a one-day-at-a-time outlook. 😂
The one day at a time plan is superb! Enjoy it!
Any post that involves a Meatloaf quote is a winner! And this one went on to offer challenging questions and interesting data. Amazing!
Thank you so much!!!
Good discussion. I use both terms because as an expat I still have an emotional tether to the US that may always be even if I live here for the rest of my life. Immigrant because that has happened twice in my life. I relate to both for slightly different reasons.
I feel like the only thing that separates me from "refugee" is I had some degree of choice in picking where to go, how, and when, but considering we escaped a country where we were in danger and death felt imminent and arrived with nothing but what we could bring in our suitcases to a country we'd never been to and knew none of the language or a single person, it felt very refugee like. When someone refers to themself as an expat, I steer clear. Our experiences are not the same and I would struggle to find such a person relatable. We have made many Portuguese friends here, some because of shared interests in nerd hobbies, some others because they are also queer and/or trans and so are more like outsiders in their own land.
Thanks for this, AMy & Scott—as always, I learned something I didn’t know I needed to know. Cheers to you and your experience!
As someone who has lived in various countries for some years due to my own work /career or being with my husband due to his career I/we where referred to & referred to ourselves as expats it’s a temporary working situation & even if one remained there for years in most cases one could not even if they wanted to apply to be permanent residence or seek citizenship it’s temporary
That’s why I find it odd why people who seem to come here sell up everything buy homes here and talk about becoming permanent residence or seek citizenship refer to themselves as expats
Maybe it’s cultural maybe it’s they haven’t been an expat in the context that I’ve been in which my visa is connected to being under contract to global corporations
Here I’m an immigrant I carry a foreign passport I have moved here to live and that was my decision for multiple reasons one being to contribute positively in creating a business etc be part of this country & culture long term I chose to be here the government allowed me to be here & I hope it’s permanent but even if for some reason things change I have immigrated here I’m not on a temporary work contract with a company who is my employer
Do I worry about the title no but I also do not wish to ever insult my hosts it’s a privilege to be here for any country to let another soul like me from somewhere else on the other side of the world come and share their culture I hope I give more back than I ever take
It is a priceless indeed to be here!
I enjoyed this. For your poll, I really cannot answer as I need a “both” option; I immediately recognize both terms as applying to me.
Language is inseparable from how it’s used… which is why definitions of words evolve over time. When someone communicates using the word “expat,” I’m probably an example of what they mean. When they use “immigrant,” I may or may not be, depending on the speaker and context, but I’m most certainly one of those as well - just ask AIMA.
You briefly alluded to the time aspect - the intention of staying. We’re planning to stay, to get citizenship. Even beyond legal definitions that’s clearly “immigrant” territory. Years ago when we lived in Scotland I heard it argued that those like us (with permanent intentions) aren’t expats at all, and that expats are in a temporary state, often for work purposes. After a year or two they’ll go home or move on to another country. That differentiation made sense to me, and I believe at one point years ago that was more commonly mutually accepted as the meaning. But to my original point… that has changed and is not how it’s most often used today.
Appreciate the juxtaposition of our immigration vs. the fear-mongering about the "other" immigration in many countries (most notably our own). Thanks for your writing.
Thank you, Lori!
Very interesting discussion! To me, an expat is somewhere between tourist and immigrant with respect to timeframe and intent. Expat is temporary, immigrant is permanent.
I was an expat for 4 months in Singapore many years ago and yes I had a high-paying job in a bank, beautiful apartment and lots of perks.
My father, in contrast, came to the US with $8 in his pocket and a green card and an education. He was an immigrant as was I, when he brought me over 6 months later. He told me years later that at the time they didn't know if they were going to be here permanently but I think it was when they saw me growing up here in the US that it was clear we were here to stay.
Interesting!
Economic refugees? Economic immigrants? Retirees aren't looking to build a new home, raise children, contribute to the economy. So they aren't immigrants in that sense.
Wikipedia: Expats...those who've chosen to live outside their native country. United Nations: "a person who voluntarily renounces his or her nationality...exiles..."
So maybe economic exiles? E(conomic)-xpats
I'm not sure if agree with you. I know economic refugees who have built houses and started businesses.
Where do I fit in? Neither? I was born in Portugal and immigrated to the US when I was 12 years of age. Fifty nine years later in 2021, I returned to my birth nation with my Hispanic wife to escape the lunacies. We are both retirees from careers in the US and are loving it here, although sometimes I feel like a foreigner.
Fascinating question! Do you usually think of yourself with any particular term?
Yes, a retornado (returned). The name's origin goes back to 1974 when Portugal gave the African colonies independence in a hurry after the carnation revolution. The new government pretty much allowed everyone, regardless of race, to leave the colonies and return to the motherland. I was twenty four year old and visiting my aunt in Lisbon. Every hotel, hostel, etc, was fully booked long term; all paid by the government until everyone was relocated and provided with a job or public assistance until able to stand on their own feet. It took years... and it was amazing. Thus, I'm a retornado from the USA. Cheers.
Wow!