Congratulations on the tenacity you displayed in working to learn this difficult language—especially with your hearing loss. In the two years plus we’ve taken lessons, it’s been like the hare—slow and steady. Thank you for sharing.
Glad to hear you found a path that worked for you.
I am hearing impaired from birth with what is considered a moderate to severe loss. I wear hearing aids, and the technology has gotten steadily better over the years, but it is still adds an extra layer of difficulty to learning a foreign language. I suspect that people who develop a hearing loss later in life have.an even harder time than I do. I've spent my whole life having to fill in gaps from context to make up for what I couldn't hear so it's second nature. I had formal training in lipreading as a young teenager and I find that it does help me with Portuguese.
My spouse and I have been taking in person lessons for over four years now, mostly because we enjoy it and have a great relationship with our teacher. Our school is not qualified to give out the government certificates so we took the CIPLE (A2) about 2 years ago and the DIPLE (B2) in November. We passed both. The listening part was the hardest by far for me, as it is for everyone whether hearing impaired or not. If you are hearing impaired you can request special accommodations, which in practice means you get to go to a separate room and use headphones, as opposed to being in the main test room and hearing on speakers, which are not very good quality. You do need to get a doctor's letter but that's not too difficult. I did not bother getting an accommodation for the A2 but did for the B2. Unfortunately I made the mistake of starting out using the headphones with my hearing aids out but the volume was not sufficient. I was able to put my hearing aids back in and use the headphones over them which worked better, but there is no way to pause the test so I got distracted and didn't do very well on the section. Fortunately I did better on the others.
If you are hearing impaired, I would recommend avoiding having to take the CIPLE, but if you can't find another alternative, it is possible to pass it. Defininitely request the accommodation though!
I didn't know that lip reading could be taught. Mine came on when I turned 35 and just gets a bit worse every year. I don't know how I picked up lip reading, but it sure helps! I find the lack of enunciation in European Portuguese makes lip reading harder. I'm glad it helps you!
I'm not surprised to hear that lip reading doesn't help you much with EP. I definitely find it easier to understand when I'm talking to someone face to face versus hearing the language in other modes (ie on a recording being played on cheap speakers). Tbh I'm not sure how much is due to lip reading versus other factors like sound quality and non-verbal communication.
Lip reading can be taught, although I would imagine it is more effective the younger the student is. When I was in junior high (in the late 70s), I worked with someone for about a year - I'm not sure what her discipline was - speeth pathology maybe? In any case, as I recall we went through all of the sounds of English systematically with her reviewing what they looked like with me. I don't remember a lot of details at this point, but I'm sure we did exercises along the way. By the end of my time working with her, we would have entire converstations where I spoke normally, and she just moved her lips with no sound. I was able to follow her pretty well. I don't remember much else about it other than that I thought she was cool because she liked the band Kansas.
Anyway I wish you the best of luck as you move forward in your journey with European Portuguese. If it's any consolation, even though theoretically I'm at level B2, I can still get tripped up in simple interactions in daily life, because they way that noative speakers swallow so many sounds.
Congratulations!! So you don't have to take the CIPLE now? We quit our glacial class at the Academia here in Madeira. Finished A2 there and learned next to nothing and still would have to take the CIPLE. So we signed up for private online lessons with our first professor, who was amazing. He's been moving us into B1 and B2 but helping us a LOT to prep for the CIPLE - which is March 14th!!! He is one of the test proctors, so he's great for prep. Trying hard not to freak out - and not sure how to say that in Portuguese. Fico nervosa!!!
It's a journey! I've been fluent in Brazilian Portuguese for decades, and switching to European has been a challenge. Many linguists say they are two different languages. Going to put here my post about taking the CIPLE exam, as some of your subscribers might find it helpful: https://justinestrand.substack.com/p/taking-the-portuguese-language-exam
In Porto, I've been taking in-person classes at Acadamia Inatel on R. Bonjardim. You get your A-2 certificate upon completion of the 150 hour A-2 course. The professors are top notch, interesting, helpful and they call on you, not waiting for volunteers. The classes are in person 2 days a week for 2 hours with online participation available but strongly discouraged. There are 3 exams throughout the year. The professors really want you to succeed. The classes are diverse in age ranges and nationality, skewed toward people who don't work full time. I've learned a lot, but the courses are 10 months long, which means only one level per year. Several people are attending the class even though they already have the A-2 certificate because they didn't feel they really learned the material in the other course they took.
A-2 is required for citizenship, but you can't really carry on a meaningful conversation at that level. Although I enjoy my classes and classmates, I'm considering switching to FLUP for B-1 and B-2, as they are only single semester courses. I'm aware FLUP students will probably be much younger than me, which will take away some of the social elements I enjoy at Inatel.
I always try to speak Portuguese when I shop, go out to eat, get my nails done or converse with portuguese people. Some people understand me, some switch to english although I still respond in portuguese as much as my language skills allow. I've been variously told my accent is awful or my accent is very good. Sometimes I can't get the gist when people speak to me, and sometimes it's crystal clear. It doesn't matter... I know in time and with practice I'll be able to understand and be understood.
What a fascinating model. I'm not sure about how that lower a pace would feel. I think good. But... over 10 months. Hmm. Especially if you have to travel each way. One of the reason I liked the online class was no travel time.
As long as you find what works for you, that's what matters!
It's the 10 months that's become a barrier for me. I know people who only speak Portuguese. I really want to talk to them, not just exchange pleasantries and stumble through conversational attempts.
I worked remotely for 5 years and I find I prefer being in-person because it really encourages helpful team interactions. There's actual chemistry happening. Going in person also ends in nice lunches and sobremesas around the city with classmates.
I also did a Camões Institute on-line course that doesn't issue a certificate. There were structured workbook-style lessons with some videos and audio recordings as well as grammar and vocabulary quizzes to work through. I only had a 1 hour weekly contact with a tutor over Skype. I did pick up the grammar and vocabulary, but speaking and listening opportunities were very limited.
I had to laugh at your EdPro experience. I too went thru the EdPro class, but had a slightly different experience. Slightly.
Before landing in Portugal I used Practice Portuguese and learned a far bit. I recommend them highly. Got to Lisboa and thought I should take lessons now, vs waiting, but found the free classes were difficult to get into and 9-months long?!? With attendance required? Who has a life that that can fit into that? Not me. So EdPro it was. I got into a class starting the next month.
We had a full class of 20 people from all over the world. Only 7 of us were in Portugal. Had many from the middle east and many from eastern Asia. A few students were fluent in PT, one student didn't understand English and we could hear her tutor translating into Chinese the whole course. 90% attendance was required and cameras had to be on the whole time. Our classroom was filled with 13 shots of ceilings. 🙄
Our teacher was great but not very strict. A couple living in the Algarve for almost 5-years had studied DuoLingo and got into a verbal spat with the teacher on Day 1 about how she was pronouncing her words and 'in the Algarve, it isn't said like that and maybe this class wouldn't work for us'. Unfortunately, they did not drop the course and continued the entire few months to speak in their Algarvese.
The EdPro class moves right along at a good clip. We did have homework assigned, but we never went over it. We had 4 or 5 "finals" that we had to pass, along with intermediate quizzes. Of course if someone was having trouble passing, Teacher would give them a few tips, rememberences, and extra time to get to a passing grade.
Having a base knowledge from PP was a big help and I thought I hadn't learned much from the EdPro class (but to be fair, the point was getting the certificate), but now doing another program to actually learn, I've found I did pick up quite a bit from EdPro. I do think your teacher makes a difference in the EdPro experience.
Congratulations! You should feel really good about that achievement! We're just starting out, having only lived here about 4 months. We've been trying to track down one of those free government language classes without luck. An email went unanswered, so we started doing research online and went to the first place we found that said they had lessons. They didn't, but sent us to another place. They did, but only for people trying to find a job (not retirees like us). But they sent us to another place, who sent us to another place... I don't remember the order now, but we've been to an EIFP, a senior center, ABLA, (maybe one more?) and now we're supposed to go to SMUP. Silver lining: we're getting our exercise, since we don't have a car. Has anyone actually found a place near Carcavelos that gives free government sponsored lessons?
Oh my goodness! That is nuts (but good for learning geography! I wish I knew where to go for the free class. Scott went to a high school that offered the class. No idea where to go, just showed up. We were sent to a small office on the same block as the school and they signed us up there. Good luck finding one near you!
I am currently taking Liz Sharma’s Portuguese Pro and it found that it has helped me get through a lot of basic situations now that I have love here to Porto. Still, I’m looking for a more immersive way of learning and, also being hard of hearing, would love not to have to take the test, which I understand is often in a noisy environment. I would love your thoughts on the best way to build on my foundation and to increase my proficiency. Happy to receive your response via DM. My ultimate goal is to become conversational at hopefully a B2 level. I realize this may take a few years that I’m definitely willing to put in the effort. To me, it’s a sign of respect and commitment and the way of making sure I don’t remain a constant outsider.
I'll answer you here incase others have the same question, but feel free to DM me with further questions - or support!
I would sign up for the free government class. Yes, there are tests, but the teacher knows you and will know of your issue. You do not have to take the CIPLE that way.
If you want to study on your own and take the CIPLE, allegedly you can get an accomodation for hearing. You are supposed to sign up, get assigned a testing center, and then reach out to the testing center with your need for accomodation.
Otherwise an online class that awards the certificate would be your best bet.
Fortunately my Spanish and (Brazilian) Portuguese are strictly a pastime and are never put to the test.
The biggest thing I've learned about learning languages and tutoring English is that IT'S REALLY HARD. In Spanish I have reached a level in which I can communicate, with difficulty, with a patient Spanish speaker who doesn't know any English. Portuguese is going more slowly although in many small ways it's easier than Spanish for an English speaker. Part of it is laziness. Plus it's now been, oh, I dunno, maybe ten years since I started learning Spanish.
I think everyone has experienced the shock of doing sorta-OK in lessons and discovered difficulty functioning in real life.
Oh, boy, do the two languages interfere with each other.
Your account made me wonder if part of my slowness in learning is hearing loss, which you mentioned. I have some now. (And I need to find out if someone can fit me with hearing aids that work better for me than my $2,000 Costco hearing aids). One of the things I tried hard with Spanish was to really learn to hear and produce the sounds of the language. In a way that's easier with Spanish because Portuguese has more vowels and when you do the bad thing of using the "closest available English vowel" it is closer in Portuguese than in Spanish. I've been lazy about that in Portuguese.
I passed the CIPLE having primarily used the Practice Portuguese website. I had four one hour lessons with a tutor, and had been living in Portugal for 5 years first, but without interacting with Portuguese people and speaking the language from day to day.
I had to study for ~1 hour a day for about 10 weeks before the CIPLE.
Thanks for the update! I just started taking the EdPro A1/A2 class. Hubby and I had been taking classes once/week with a teacher we really liked, and we just started A2 when he died. When we went looking for alternatives, we found EdPro through friends, so we've started there. Just got through the first week. I think, if we didn't have any background, the class would be almost too fast, but at least our teacher is really good about taking questions.
Congratulations on the tenacity you displayed in working to learn this difficult language—especially with your hearing loss. In the two years plus we’ve taken lessons, it’s been like the hare—slow and steady. Thank you for sharing.
Slow and steady is the single best way to learn a language!
Glad to hear you found a path that worked for you.
I am hearing impaired from birth with what is considered a moderate to severe loss. I wear hearing aids, and the technology has gotten steadily better over the years, but it is still adds an extra layer of difficulty to learning a foreign language. I suspect that people who develop a hearing loss later in life have.an even harder time than I do. I've spent my whole life having to fill in gaps from context to make up for what I couldn't hear so it's second nature. I had formal training in lipreading as a young teenager and I find that it does help me with Portuguese.
My spouse and I have been taking in person lessons for over four years now, mostly because we enjoy it and have a great relationship with our teacher. Our school is not qualified to give out the government certificates so we took the CIPLE (A2) about 2 years ago and the DIPLE (B2) in November. We passed both. The listening part was the hardest by far for me, as it is for everyone whether hearing impaired or not. If you are hearing impaired you can request special accommodations, which in practice means you get to go to a separate room and use headphones, as opposed to being in the main test room and hearing on speakers, which are not very good quality. You do need to get a doctor's letter but that's not too difficult. I did not bother getting an accommodation for the A2 but did for the B2. Unfortunately I made the mistake of starting out using the headphones with my hearing aids out but the volume was not sufficient. I was able to put my hearing aids back in and use the headphones over them which worked better, but there is no way to pause the test so I got distracted and didn't do very well on the section. Fortunately I did better on the others.
If you are hearing impaired, I would recommend avoiding having to take the CIPLE, but if you can't find another alternative, it is possible to pass it. Defininitely request the accommodation though!
Helpful information! Thank you for sharing!
I didn't know that lip reading could be taught. Mine came on when I turned 35 and just gets a bit worse every year. I don't know how I picked up lip reading, but it sure helps! I find the lack of enunciation in European Portuguese makes lip reading harder. I'm glad it helps you!
Hi Amy,
I'm not surprised to hear that lip reading doesn't help you much with EP. I definitely find it easier to understand when I'm talking to someone face to face versus hearing the language in other modes (ie on a recording being played on cheap speakers). Tbh I'm not sure how much is due to lip reading versus other factors like sound quality and non-verbal communication.
Lip reading can be taught, although I would imagine it is more effective the younger the student is. When I was in junior high (in the late 70s), I worked with someone for about a year - I'm not sure what her discipline was - speeth pathology maybe? In any case, as I recall we went through all of the sounds of English systematically with her reviewing what they looked like with me. I don't remember a lot of details at this point, but I'm sure we did exercises along the way. By the end of my time working with her, we would have entire converstations where I spoke normally, and she just moved her lips with no sound. I was able to follow her pretty well. I don't remember much else about it other than that I thought she was cool because she liked the band Kansas.
Anyway I wish you the best of luck as you move forward in your journey with European Portuguese. If it's any consolation, even though theoretically I'm at level B2, I can still get tripped up in simple interactions in daily life, because they way that noative speakers swallow so many sounds.
That's absolutely amazing! And, yes, Kansas!
Way to go!
Waiting for volunteers like that would've driven me cuckoo, too. Yikes.
I'm not a patient person. *rolling eyes*
Congratulations!! So you don't have to take the CIPLE now? We quit our glacial class at the Academia here in Madeira. Finished A2 there and learned next to nothing and still would have to take the CIPLE. So we signed up for private online lessons with our first professor, who was amazing. He's been moving us into B1 and B2 but helping us a LOT to prep for the CIPLE - which is March 14th!!! He is one of the test proctors, so he's great for prep. Trying hard not to freak out - and not sure how to say that in Portuguese. Fico nervosa!!!
Good for you!!! You've got this! If you're doing B1 and B2 you'll skate throught it!!!
It's a journey! I've been fluent in Brazilian Portuguese for decades, and switching to European has been a challenge. Many linguists say they are two different languages. Going to put here my post about taking the CIPLE exam, as some of your subscribers might find it helpful: https://justinestrand.substack.com/p/taking-the-portuguese-language-exam
Thank you for the insight and the link!
In Porto, I've been taking in-person classes at Acadamia Inatel on R. Bonjardim. You get your A-2 certificate upon completion of the 150 hour A-2 course. The professors are top notch, interesting, helpful and they call on you, not waiting for volunteers. The classes are in person 2 days a week for 2 hours with online participation available but strongly discouraged. There are 3 exams throughout the year. The professors really want you to succeed. The classes are diverse in age ranges and nationality, skewed toward people who don't work full time. I've learned a lot, but the courses are 10 months long, which means only one level per year. Several people are attending the class even though they already have the A-2 certificate because they didn't feel they really learned the material in the other course they took.
A-2 is required for citizenship, but you can't really carry on a meaningful conversation at that level. Although I enjoy my classes and classmates, I'm considering switching to FLUP for B-1 and B-2, as they are only single semester courses. I'm aware FLUP students will probably be much younger than me, which will take away some of the social elements I enjoy at Inatel.
I always try to speak Portuguese when I shop, go out to eat, get my nails done or converse with portuguese people. Some people understand me, some switch to english although I still respond in portuguese as much as my language skills allow. I've been variously told my accent is awful or my accent is very good. Sometimes I can't get the gist when people speak to me, and sometimes it's crystal clear. It doesn't matter... I know in time and with practice I'll be able to understand and be understood.
What a fascinating model. I'm not sure about how that lower a pace would feel. I think good. But... over 10 months. Hmm. Especially if you have to travel each way. One of the reason I liked the online class was no travel time.
As long as you find what works for you, that's what matters!
It's the 10 months that's become a barrier for me. I know people who only speak Portuguese. I really want to talk to them, not just exchange pleasantries and stumble through conversational attempts.
I worked remotely for 5 years and I find I prefer being in-person because it really encourages helpful team interactions. There's actual chemistry happening. Going in person also ends in nice lunches and sobremesas around the city with classmates.
I also did a Camões Institute on-line course that doesn't issue a certificate. There were structured workbook-style lessons with some videos and audio recordings as well as grammar and vocabulary quizzes to work through. I only had a 1 hour weekly contact with a tutor over Skype. I did pick up the grammar and vocabulary, but speaking and listening opportunities were very limited.
I had to laugh at your EdPro experience. I too went thru the EdPro class, but had a slightly different experience. Slightly.
Before landing in Portugal I used Practice Portuguese and learned a far bit. I recommend them highly. Got to Lisboa and thought I should take lessons now, vs waiting, but found the free classes were difficult to get into and 9-months long?!? With attendance required? Who has a life that that can fit into that? Not me. So EdPro it was. I got into a class starting the next month.
We had a full class of 20 people from all over the world. Only 7 of us were in Portugal. Had many from the middle east and many from eastern Asia. A few students were fluent in PT, one student didn't understand English and we could hear her tutor translating into Chinese the whole course. 90% attendance was required and cameras had to be on the whole time. Our classroom was filled with 13 shots of ceilings. 🙄
Our teacher was great but not very strict. A couple living in the Algarve for almost 5-years had studied DuoLingo and got into a verbal spat with the teacher on Day 1 about how she was pronouncing her words and 'in the Algarve, it isn't said like that and maybe this class wouldn't work for us'. Unfortunately, they did not drop the course and continued the entire few months to speak in their Algarvese.
The EdPro class moves right along at a good clip. We did have homework assigned, but we never went over it. We had 4 or 5 "finals" that we had to pass, along with intermediate quizzes. Of course if someone was having trouble passing, Teacher would give them a few tips, rememberences, and extra time to get to a passing grade.
Having a base knowledge from PP was a big help and I thought I hadn't learned much from the EdPro class (but to be fair, the point was getting the certificate), but now doing another program to actually learn, I've found I did pick up quite a bit from EdPro. I do think your teacher makes a difference in the EdPro experience.
100% - the professor makes a huge difference!
how interesting that you had finals? and quizes. Wow!
I'm sorry about the Algarve "wah, you're not doing it my way" folks ;-)
Congratulations! You should feel really good about that achievement! We're just starting out, having only lived here about 4 months. We've been trying to track down one of those free government language classes without luck. An email went unanswered, so we started doing research online and went to the first place we found that said they had lessons. They didn't, but sent us to another place. They did, but only for people trying to find a job (not retirees like us). But they sent us to another place, who sent us to another place... I don't remember the order now, but we've been to an EIFP, a senior center, ABLA, (maybe one more?) and now we're supposed to go to SMUP. Silver lining: we're getting our exercise, since we don't have a car. Has anyone actually found a place near Carcavelos that gives free government sponsored lessons?
Oh my goodness! That is nuts (but good for learning geography! I wish I knew where to go for the free class. Scott went to a high school that offered the class. No idea where to go, just showed up. We were sent to a small office on the same block as the school and they signed us up there. Good luck finding one near you!
I am currently taking Liz Sharma’s Portuguese Pro and it found that it has helped me get through a lot of basic situations now that I have love here to Porto. Still, I’m looking for a more immersive way of learning and, also being hard of hearing, would love not to have to take the test, which I understand is often in a noisy environment. I would love your thoughts on the best way to build on my foundation and to increase my proficiency. Happy to receive your response via DM. My ultimate goal is to become conversational at hopefully a B2 level. I realize this may take a few years that I’m definitely willing to put in the effort. To me, it’s a sign of respect and commitment and the way of making sure I don’t remain a constant outsider.
I'll answer you here incase others have the same question, but feel free to DM me with further questions - or support!
I would sign up for the free government class. Yes, there are tests, but the teacher knows you and will know of your issue. You do not have to take the CIPLE that way.
If you want to study on your own and take the CIPLE, allegedly you can get an accomodation for hearing. You are supposed to sign up, get assigned a testing center, and then reach out to the testing center with your need for accomodation.
Otherwise an online class that awards the certificate would be your best bet.
You can do this!
Thank you!
Fortunately my Spanish and (Brazilian) Portuguese are strictly a pastime and are never put to the test.
The biggest thing I've learned about learning languages and tutoring English is that IT'S REALLY HARD. In Spanish I have reached a level in which I can communicate, with difficulty, with a patient Spanish speaker who doesn't know any English. Portuguese is going more slowly although in many small ways it's easier than Spanish for an English speaker. Part of it is laziness. Plus it's now been, oh, I dunno, maybe ten years since I started learning Spanish.
I think everyone has experienced the shock of doing sorta-OK in lessons and discovered difficulty functioning in real life.
Oh, boy, do the two languages interfere with each other.
Your account made me wonder if part of my slowness in learning is hearing loss, which you mentioned. I have some now. (And I need to find out if someone can fit me with hearing aids that work better for me than my $2,000 Costco hearing aids). One of the things I tried hard with Spanish was to really learn to hear and produce the sounds of the language. In a way that's easier with Spanish because Portuguese has more vowels and when you do the bad thing of using the "closest available English vowel" it is closer in Portuguese than in Spanish. I've been lazy about that in Portuguese.
Good for you! Way to keep the brain working!
I wish I was able to learn Brazilian Portuguese, but it wouldn't be that helpful. My understanding is they pronounce every syllable, and every word.
In the borders people end up speaking some Portunol - a mix of Spanish and European Portuguese. Languages are fascinating, aren't they?
I passed the CIPLE having primarily used the Practice Portuguese website. I had four one hour lessons with a tutor, and had been living in Portugal for 5 years first, but without interacting with Portuguese people and speaking the language from day to day.
I had to study for ~1 hour a day for about 10 weeks before the CIPLE.
Oh! I'm so glad you mentioned Practice Portuguese! I love their stuff! So helpful and clear.
Congratulations on passing the CIPLE! Are you going for B1/B2?
https://www.practiceportuguese.com/
Thanks for the update! I just started taking the EdPro A1/A2 class. Hubby and I had been taking classes once/week with a teacher we really liked, and we just started A2 when he died. When we went looking for alternatives, we found EdPro through friends, so we've started there. Just got through the first week. I think, if we didn't have any background, the class would be almost too fast, but at least our teacher is really good about taking questions.
That sounds like a win. I hope you are finding you are learning things even during the classes that cover what you already know!